Wales’ deputy first minister accuses Reform MSs of fuelling “hate and division”

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There is a “persistent pattern” of Reform members using their position to “fuel hate and division”, Wales deputy first minister has said.

Sioned Williams clashed with Reform’s shadow minister for fairness, Cristiana Emsley, on Wednesday November 4 as she took questions in the Senedd in her role as minister for social justice.

Ms Emsley, member for Fflint Wrecsam, began by criticising Ms Williams’ conduct during a Reform debate on face coverings which took place before the autumn recess.

She said: “There was rather a lot of hyperventilation, but unfortunately no opportunity for me to intervene and challenge what you were saying.”

The Reform MS called on Ms Williams to identify the specific verse in the Qur’an which requires Muslim women to cover their faces.

The deputy first minister told members she will “absolutely reject” any attempts by members to “divide communities by scapegoating, by insinuating and spreading false information, scaremongering.”

She continued: “There is a persistent pattern of members of Reform and spokespeople using their position to fuel hate and division.

“I’m here in good faith to answer questions of scrutiny on my work. I will do that. We are all elected to do so.

“It’s a huge privilege, but … with that privilege comes a huge responsibility, and I’d remind the member of that responsibility to be careful about the words that she uses.”

“Offensive in the extreme”

Ms Emsley questioned Ms Williams’ decision, during the face coverings debate, to reference the persecution of Jewish people in 1930s Germany.

She said she had been contacted by a Jewish woman living in Wales named Beth, who described the minister’s comparison as “offensive in the extreme”.

Quoting the constituent, Ms Emsley said: “She describes your comparison as a false equivalence, which, in her words, minimises the horrors of the Nazi regime and says that using the persecution of the Jews in the 1930s to score political points was hard to listen to.”

Ms Emsley told the Siambr the constituent had been unable to raise the issue directly with the deputy first minister because Ms Williams had blocked her on social media.

She asked: “Will you apologise to Beth, unblock her, and listen to a Jewish woman whose history you chose to invoke?”

Ms Williams stressed she is “very available” as a Welsh Government minister via email adding there was “no need” to use social media to get in touch.

The deputy first minister told MSs she had also received correspondence following the face coverings debate from members of the public who felt “unsafe and threatened by the language and tone of the debate that was used by members on the Reform bench”.

She referenced a Holocaust survivor who criticised Conservative UK ministers talking about “swarms” coming across the channel, noting the importance of language.

Ms Williams said: “When we talk about people that are less than, and your fellow member says that not all cultures are equal, that infers that some people who are of certain cultures are less than others. That’s how things started. That’s how things start.”